Oppo Hivemind...Who Makes the Best CVT?

"Makoyouidiot" (makaan12) 04/26/2018 at 15:28 • Filed to: Transmission, cvt

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Not that I’m gonna buy one, but I am curious if anyone makes a CVT that isn’t horrifically bad.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 15:34

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Toyota in their Hybrids.

Tripper > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 15:35

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I don’t know but it definitely isn’t Subaru.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 15:37

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Polaris

Chariotoflove > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 15:38

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This is like asking who makes the most comfortable enema.

Bo Knows > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 15:39

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Similar question: which dog breed lays the prettiest turds?

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 15:39

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Honda is decent.

Nissan is the worst. I’m looking at you, rental Altima.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 15:40

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Arctic Cat or Polaris or Yamaha or Ski-Doo.

Urambo Tauro > Chariotoflove 04/26/2018 at 15:40

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Asking for a friend...

ateamfan42 > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 15:41

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The first CVT I ever drove was a late 90s Honda Civic HX. I took a test drive mostly because I was curious about the new technology. It was still an automatic and not for me, but I did appreciate it did what a CVT was supposed to do: constantly vary the gear ratio to hold the engine at peak power.

Every newer CVT I’ve driven since would not do that. The computers were programmed to make it seem like the transmission was shifting gear ratios, and some wouldn’t even allow the engine to reach peak power and “shifted” to stay well away from redline. What’s the point? Might as well just use a regular auto at that point.

Tekamul > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 04/26/2018 at 15:44

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Does that really count though? It’s a “CVT” that requires a torque-heavy electric motor to function. The ICE is never going to give any real acceleration from a stop, as it doesn’t see a mechanical advantage from a gear ratio.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > Tekamul 04/26/2018 at 15:45

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Has one gear and works really well? So I say yes haha.

DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 15:47

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I honestly liked the one in my a4, but I don’t think that’s an option anymore

OPPOsaurus WRX > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/26/2018 at 15:47

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i have no issues with my Quest’s CVT

Future next gen S2000 owner > Urambo Tauro 04/26/2018 at 15:48

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OPPOsaurus WRX > Chariotoflove 04/26/2018 at 15:50

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I don’t get why people shit on CVTs so much. Sure they dont belong in sporty applications but neither do the average automatic. If i had to choose auto or CVT for my DD i’d take the CVT every day.

Chariotoflove > OPPOsaurus WRX 04/26/2018 at 15:53

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I wasn’t thinking it has anything to do with being sporty. I actually think the CVT makes the most sense for consistent, optimal power delivery, theoretically. In practice, my experience with one was unpleasant. So, I’m thinking it’s in the design and implementation.

Wacko > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 15:53

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I love the CVT in my 2014 pathfinder.

Smooth constant acceleration and no fake shifts.

Since owning this CVT , I hate normal automatics even more than i did before.

So find a CVT with out the fake shifts.

boredalways > Bo Knows 04/26/2018 at 15:57

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Shih tzu

OPPOsaurus WRX > Wacko 04/26/2018 at 16:01

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this is exactly how I feel. If you can;t row your own, might as well make it a CVT. Autos, especially when they have to think for 30 seconds about what to do, really piss me off. Thats why I leave my focus in ‘S’ so I can shift myself, even though its just a little up and down button and no 3rd pedal

HammerheadFistpunch > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 16:09

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Not Jatco.

and 100 more > HammerheadFistpunch 04/26/2018 at 16:17

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Which is funny since they supply so many of them.

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 16:20

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DAF did, because twin exposed belts and the differential working by varying the left and right cones individually.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Chariotoflove 04/26/2018 at 16:22

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Well if you have to ask....

duurtlang > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 04/26/2018 at 16:25

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... is the correct answer.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 16:25

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Not Nissan.

Wacko > OPPOsaurus WRX 04/26/2018 at 16:26

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I’m going back to a manual for my next car, once the pathfinder goes to my wife.

Was driving manuals for 20 years before getting my path. just couldn’t find any manual awd 7 passenger car....

Wacko > Chariotoflove 04/26/2018 at 16:29

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was that cause you only got to try a CVT witha underpowered 4 banger??

Cause when i tried a versa when they came out i hated it. But with my pathfounder it feels perfect. way better than any automatic i ever tried.

Wacko > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/26/2018 at 16:32

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love my CVT in my 2014 pathfounder, even if it was replaced last april.

2013s and early 2014s had known issues. in 2015 they gave them fake shifts, then went back to no fake shifts in 2016-2017...

A CVT with the 3.5 v6 is good. A CVT with a 4 banger is bah....

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 04/26/2018 at 16:47

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It’s easy to fix, which is a huge advantage over a modern drive. Worth note, it also provides a rudimentary traction control/limited slip, which is better than any other CVT on the market since can claim.

Derpwagon > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 16:47

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Nobody because they’re all awful.

Derpwagon > OPPOsaurus WRX 04/26/2018 at 16:48

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It feels all wrong. It’s witchcraft.

Stapleface > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 17:15

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1. Honda

2a. Subaru

2b. Toyota

3. Swimming in a Fukoshima reactor

4. Nissan

This is all personal experience (except for #3). I currently own a Honda with a cvt and it’s perfectly adequate for most things. Subaru and Toyota really aren’t far behind. And then there’s Nissan. The car I had a was a 4cyl so maybe that was part of it, but the thing was just awful. It made a whole lot of noise but really couldn’t deliver what little power there was.

TahoeSTi > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 17:16

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No one, at least not until they stop programming in fake shift points.....and also 3 pedals is always the answer.

Chariotoflove > Wacko 04/26/2018 at 17:26

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Possibly. It was an Altima.

Under_Score > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 17:40

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The CVT in my mom’s CR-V is nice.

XC99TF00 > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 17:41

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Williams F1, circa, 1993... although only for testing.

TorqueToYield > Tekamul 04/26/2018 at 18:03

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It’s literally a CVT “Continuously Variable Transmission” so yes it counts.

bhtooefr > Tekamul 04/26/2018 at 18:46

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It’s a bit more complex than that, really.

Ultimately, Toyota’s hybrid transmissions are what’s known as a power split transmission, which enables CVT behavior and has a mechanical path for engine torque to the wheels. The effective gear ratio is varied by controlling the speed of one of the electric motors, which pulls power off of the engine, and sends it to the other motor (which is geared to the wheels at a fixed ratio).

It’s also worth noting that a power split transmission doesn’t need to be electric - many tractors nowadays have a CVT option that uses a hydraulic pump in place of Toyota’s MG1, and a hydraulic motor in place of Toyota’s MG2 - so, instead of a split between a mechanical and electric path, it’s a split between a mechanical and hydraulic path. And, in fact, Honda’s used a simplified version of the concept (which somehow (I’m still not entirely sure how) uses one of the hydraulic elements itself as if it were a planetary gearset) as well in some scooter (Juno), ATV, and motorcycle (DN-01) transmissions.

I’d say it is a CVT, just a very different one.

(And a damn good one, I must say.)

bhtooefr > ateamfan42 04/26/2018 at 18:50

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Honda’s tuning philosophy for CVTs nowadays is constant acceleration, which requires artificially limiting acceleration early on, and increasing RPM as you keep your foot down.

(Also worth noting that many Toyota hybrids will drive like that at full acceleration, too, but it’s actually for mechanical reasons, unlike in Honda’s application - my Prius, for instance, cannot reach 5200 RPM (where the power peak is) until 88 mph, due to the gear ratios available. At wide open throttle it’ll run the engine as fast as it can, though.)

I own dead car brands only > Makoyouidiot 04/26/2018 at 19:13

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The rental Nissan rogue was really nice. It made good use of the power. It was really good to the point I considered buying a rogue. This is from a guy who had two tuned Saab’s that made 300+ hp each

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > OPPOsaurus WRX 04/26/2018 at 19:19

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They’re a strange driving experience though. When you’re used to shifts, it’s strange to feel like the trans is always slipping. But you make a good point about a DD. I’ve driven a juke and an infinity SUV, the one that’s midsize, used to be a jx or something. I idea what they call them now. But they weren’t awful. Just strange.

Tekamul > bhtooefr 04/26/2018 at 19:46

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Yeah, I know how it works. Sometimes brevity matters.

Depending on why Makoyouidiot is asking, the fact that this style requires two separate inputs may impact the validity.

bhtooefr > OPPOsaurus WRX 04/26/2018 at 20:10

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Williams begs to differ. CVTs are so sporty, they got banned from F1.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Wacko 04/26/2018 at 21:04

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I hope to as well

pip bip - choose Corrour > Makoyouidiot 04/27/2018 at 08:44

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no one.

ateamfan42 > bhtooefr 04/27/2018 at 08:56

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I should have been clear that the newer CVTs I’ve driven have been from makes other than Honda, so I’m not sure how Honda’s modern CVTs specifically compare to that early model.

I just don’t see the point of anyone building with a CVT and then faking it out to work like a crappy regular auto. I’m a manual fan through and through. But if I was forced to go with two pedals, eliminating me having to yell at shifts that shouldn’t be happening (or shifts that should happen but won’t) make a good CVT a less painful option than an ordinary auto.

Makoyouidiot > Chariotoflove 04/27/2018 at 09:12

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There are degrees of suckiness :)

Makoyouidiot > Wacko 04/27/2018 at 09:14

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I do not see the point of fake shifts.

Makoyouidiot > Stapleface 04/27/2018 at 09:17

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You had me at 3

Wacko > Makoyouidiot 04/27/2018 at 09:26

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cause Americans needed it to feel like a normal automatic transmission for a reason.

guess the average american thought it wasn’t working if they can’t feel it working.

Chariotoflove > Makoyouidiot 04/27/2018 at 10:06

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This is true.

bhtooefr > ateamfan42 04/27/2018 at 10:24

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One thing with fake shifting of a CVT is that... the fake gears don’t have to be the same ratio every time, so there is still more flexibility even with a fake shift program. (They often are, though.)

And, at light throttle, where it’s less noticeable, and where the fuel economy tests spend much of their time, it’ll start behaving like a CVT again.

(I mean, I think it’s all stupid, and would really rather prefer CVTs were CVTs, and stopped trying to pretend to be automatics. But there are reasons to make a fake automatic over using a real one.)

Makoyouidiot > Wacko 04/27/2018 at 10:37

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I wonder how many Nissan service advisors had to explain the different sounds a cvt makes to confused customers.

Wacko > Makoyouidiot 04/27/2018 at 10:47

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only sound my CVT made is when it failed last april........

other than that don’t hear the CVT at all, just hear the VQ35